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If I can shoot rabbits then I can egg fascists - The Ex-Communicator

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June 12th, 2009


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04:31 pm - If I can shoot rabbits then I can egg fascists
Daniel D at Crooked Timber:

Based on the fact that (the BNP) got two MEPs elected, non-white British citizens might justifiably be looking with suspicion at their white neighbours today, thinking that a significant proportion of us were secretly harbouring fascist sympathies. In fact this isn’t true; the absolute number of BNP votes was slightly down on 2004, and their electoral success was purely an artefact of overall low turnout. It’s therefore an important point to be made, to our own population and to the world’s watching media, that Nick Griffin isn’t in fact a newly popular and influential political figure; he’s a widely reviled creep who not only doesn’t lead a phalanx of jackbooted supporters, but actually can’t even set up for a TV interview without being pelted with eggs. The voice of the British populace does not shout “Hail Griffin!”, it shouts, “Oi Fatty, cop this! [splat]”. And the only efficient and credible way to demonstrate to the world that Griffin is regarded as an eggworthy disgrace, is to actually and repeatedly pelt him with eggs.

I'm not looking for a quote making the opposite case - I'm sure you know what it is - we should not lower ourselves to their level, we should allow the fascists to speak so we can refute them. I take it for granted all lj-friends are anti-racists, so this is just a question of tactics.

Poll #1414851 Egging the BNP

Throwing eggs at Nick Griffin

Good
12(48.0%)
Bad
13(52.0%)

(28 comments | Leave a comment)

Comments:


[User Picture]
From:andrewducker
Date:June 12th, 2009 03:36 pm (UTC)
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We are supposed to be better than them. Throwing eggs at people is assault, and if we want to move onto a better world then throwing eggs at people we disagree with is not going to get us there.

I'm fine with demonstrations, placards, etc. Feel free to shout him down whenever he opens his moutn - or even better, to let him spout nonsense and then tear apart his lies and fear.

But assaulting another human being is, IMHO, never justified outside of immediate self-defence.
[User Picture]
From:communicator
Date:June 12th, 2009 03:44 pm (UTC)
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I can see exactly what you mean - and ironically this is exactly what I tell my children in the strongest terms, because I don't want them to get arrested.
[User Picture]
From:julesjones
Date:June 12th, 2009 10:29 pm (UTC)
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Yes. Much as I think the ratbag deserves to be covered in egg, I do not like the idea of any politician having eggs chucked at their person -- not least because it is possible to do someone a non-trivial injury if you hit them in exactly the wrong spot. I had a great deal of sympathy for Prescott thumping the guy who egged him a few years ago, even though I don't particularly like Prescott. And I don't think "physically assaulting a politician you disagree with is okay" is a particularly good message to be sending.

[User Picture]
From:glitterboy1
Date:June 12th, 2009 04:32 pm (UTC)
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we should allow the fascists to speak so we can refute them

Aside from the question of assault, and whether that can be right, there's another problem: if we don't allow them to speak, they will use that against us as part of their rhetoric.
[User Picture]
From:communicator
Date:June 12th, 2009 04:35 pm (UTC)
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I think these are good arguments. Oh, I don't know, I just loathe the wretched man and inwardly cheer when he gets it in the chops.

But I'm quite glad to see a split in the poll here - perhaps it just shows which of us are gentle and which aggressive in character.
From:jomacmouse
Date:June 13th, 2009 05:06 am (UTC)
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Or, perhaps, those of us who are more usually gentle but may be letting our frustrations do the talking occasionally :-(
[User Picture]
From:calapine
Date:June 12th, 2009 05:16 pm (UTC)
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Whilst I appreciate the arguments against throwing eggs intellectually, I'm afraid my gut instinct says yay and lols.

Besides, technically, assault can be as little as a brush on the arm.
[User Picture]
From:communicator
Date:June 12th, 2009 05:31 pm (UTC)
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Also it's not going to hurt him, and I think we'd agree that would be out of bounds.
[User Picture]
From:calapine
Date:June 12th, 2009 05:41 pm (UTC)
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Aye, there's many a politician that gets an egg chucked at them, and I'm very much in favour of most of those eggs getting chucked in the direction of the BNP.
[User Picture]
From:pennski
Date:June 12th, 2009 06:29 pm (UTC)
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Phill Jupitus suggested (not seriously) throwing Scotch eggs. An interesting ploy I think.
[User Picture]
From:trixieleitz
Date:June 12th, 2009 10:06 pm (UTC)
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Whilst I appreciate the arguments against throwing eggs intellectually, I'm afraid my gut instinct says yay and lols.

This is pretty much my stand on the issue :)
[User Picture]
From:hawkeye7
Date:June 12th, 2009 08:41 pm (UTC)
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the absolute number of BNP votes was slightly down on 2004, and their electoral success was purely an artefact of overall low turnout
Which means that their vote was higher. I suggest you toss eggs at anyone who did not vote.
[User Picture]
From:trixieleitz
Date:June 12th, 2009 10:10 pm (UTC)
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Which means that their vote was higher.

Only in relative terms, but the outcome was the same no matter how nitpicky I get :)

I suggest you toss eggs at anyone who did not vote.

This, I can get behind 100% :) Or, given that much of the world doesn't have the prosecution option, perhaps we should stash a chocolate egg in each polling booth as a bribe to Get Out and Vote.
[User Picture]
From:vilakins
Date:June 12th, 2009 11:30 pm (UTC)
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The Australians do prosecute non-voters, but I like the idea they have over there of having sausage sizzles and charity cake stalls at voting places. Perhaps that would get people out: a free cuppa and some home baking? Or chocolate eggs and fish. :-)
[User Picture]
From:trixieleitz
Date:June 13th, 2009 12:05 am (UTC)
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Sometimes I wish English distinguished between inclusive and exclusive we, because exclusive we is what I meant in this:
...perhaps we should stash...
:)
[User Picture]
From:kerravonsen
Date:June 13th, 2009 01:44 am (UTC)
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Technically speaking, non-voters aren't prosecuted, they're fined.
But, yes, I do look forward to the sausage sizzles and cake stalls. 8-)
And they're charity sausage sizzles, too.

Edited at 2009-06-13 01:45 am (UTC)
[User Picture]
From:vilakins
Date:June 13th, 2009 06:39 am (UTC)
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Ah; sorry. How much is it? I believe voter turnout was relatively low last year here too.
[User Picture]
From:kerravonsen
Date:June 13th, 2009 07:23 am (UTC)
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About $50. It may have gone up since I last checked, though.
[User Picture]
From:hawkeye7
Date:June 14th, 2009 03:46 am (UTC)
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Plus court costs if they have to drag you in.
[User Picture]
From:communicator
Date:June 13th, 2009 05:39 am (UTC)
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The important thing for me is that there aren't actually more racists in the Uk than there were five years ago, in number terms: not one convert (or no evidence of even one convert).
[User Picture]
From:communicator
Date:June 14th, 2009 05:34 am (UTC)
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I think not voting can be the right thing to do - I've never done that, but it has to be a valid response to a bad choice - and the blame is with the system which hasn't offered anyone a good choice.
[User Picture]
From:dfordoom
Date:June 13th, 2009 04:35 am (UTC)
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If you believe in the democratic process then you have to treat the elected representatives of all parties with equal respect. You have to be careful to be seen to be attacking their policies, not attacking them as people.

Of course I'm not suggesting that you should believe in the democratic process, or in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny either for that matter. But apparently some people still do.
[User Picture]
From:communicator
Date:June 13th, 2009 05:38 am (UTC)
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The problem is they say they speak for me, as an English person, and they are racists. I feel the need for something different in this case. On the whole I agree with you about respect, but in this case they are so extreme that I feel they put themselves outside of that.
[User Picture]
From:dfordoom
Date:June 13th, 2009 06:00 am (UTC)
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Well that's why I have no belief whatsoever that democracy has ever worked or is ever going to work!

But once you resort to extreme tactics then you've given the racists the high moral ground. You've given them cedibility, and you've given them the publicity they crave and on which they feed.

I don't claim to have an answer, because I don't believe there's any hope for our civilisation.
[User Picture]
From:kalypso_v
Date:June 13th, 2009 10:39 am (UTC)
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After a lot of dithering, I think no, as it reduces our own credibility, enables them to claim persecution, and is a waste of eggs.

This does not mean I can't smile when someone else does it.
[User Picture]
From:matildabj
Date:June 13th, 2009 03:24 pm (UTC)
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It's making a martyr out of him. He should just be ignored.
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From:wwhyte
Date:June 14th, 2009 02:17 am (UTC)
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I'm going to have to go for bad. Simply because, if it's okay for us to throw eggs at them, how do we say it's not okay for them to throw eggs at us?

But at the same time I went yay! like I always do when this kind of things happen. If you'd had an option for "guilty pleasure" I'd have ticked that in a shot.
[User Picture]
From:gfk88
Date:June 15th, 2009 07:38 am (UTC)
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No eggs. The media are so dumb and lazy that they'll report it every time he gets splatted, giving him the publicity he wants.

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