This has made me realise how much I dislike what they call 'state of the nation' novels

I noticed your comment on nwhyte's journal. Those state of the nation ones were my favourites!

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You know how I was saying on snowking's post that I get a little thrill of recognition from the SF books; but the political novels made me feel pissed off. Even Vineland is the Pynchon novel that pisses me off. I like Vanity Fair and Shirley, to be fair.

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I too love "state of the nation" novels...I am sure y'all are shocked!!!

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you two are obviously political animals

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Guilty as charged. :)

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I have been looking at the lists each day, and thinking more and more that I have just never read ANYTHING, but actually I've just read these ones and not all those other lists that were full of books that made me tired just thinking about them.

Having said that, I am completely disregarding this list as having ANY VALUE AT ALL because it doesn't have the mars trilogy on it. I turn out to be QUITE JUDGEY.

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'books that make me tired just thinking about them' is a good way of describing some of those other lists. have you read Years of Rice and Salt? I liked it, but I loaned it to a Buddhist friend and she hated it, she gave it back to me with a shudder.

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I haven't. It took me a while to work out which one it is, but it's the one that I always pick up and think I should read because people love it and it's bound to be GREAT but then put down because it has history in it and stuff, rather than Mars. I will probably read it eventually and love it and be glad it is on this list, but I don't understand Red Mars not being there as well.

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Interesting that when this sort of list doesn't consider things like Erewhon and The Man Who Was Thursday to be SF or fantasy, I get annoyed; but I'm also slightly put out when - as in this case - they're included. A kind of grumbly "look there are plenty of brilliant books in the genre without your having to bundle in bloody Orwell again to make it look respectable".

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I know just what you mean. I am not sure if SF fans are justified in feeling defensive, but I know I generally do :-)

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There were some strange choices in there - it's great to see Ken MacLeod in there for instance (though why no Charles Stross?) but Night Sessions instead of anything from the Fall Revolution or Engines of Light? As for Rice and Salt over the Mars trilogy, that just smacks of someone wanting to look really contrarian but not wanting to really risk it by putting Icehenge or The Memory Of Whiteness on there.

And one book that better be in the 'war' section tomorrow go explain its absence from this list is Slaughterhouse-5 or I shall be having serious words with The Guardian...

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Yes, Rice and Salt is a strange choice, but perhaps trying to give an idea of the range of fantastic fiction? Slaughterhouse 5 is inexplicable unless they have it in tomorrow. you have been warned Rusbridger

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